Home · Articles · Downloads · Hobby Wear · Forums · Web Links · News CategoriesFriday, January 28, 2022
Navigation
Home
Articles
Downloads
Hobby Wear
FAQ
Forums
Web Links
News Categories
Contact Us
Photo Gallery
OpenVMS Bigot
Search
Users Online
Guests Online: 8
No Members Online

Registered Members: 7,623
Newest Member: alleahmarcina30
Sponsors
Island Computer
View Thread
OpenVMS Hobbyist Program | Alpha Systems Forums | FreeAXP
Author VSI FreeAXP Student kit and MONITOR display problem
VolkerHalle
Member

User Avatar

Posts: 103
Location: Germany
Joined: 02.04.10
Posted on March 05 2021 22:41
As first reported in comp.os.vms

https://groups.google.com/g/comp.os.vms/c/0FGKGIX83Js

there is a problem with displaying MONITOR data in OpenVMS Alpha V8.4-2L2 when running in FreeAXP 4.0.0.646 as delivered with the VSI Student Kit 2020.2. After reading the problem description, I decided to try to quickly reproduce this problem by downloading and installating the 2020.2 student kit and yes, this problem is reproducable !

Avanti Virtual Alpha version 4.0.0.646 (Apr 14 2020 14:36:57)

$ sho sys/noproc
OpenVMS V8.4-2L2 on node STUDNT 6-MAR-2021 09:51:41.17 Uptime 0 00:07:03
$

Directory SYS$COMMON:[SYSEXE]

MONITOR.EXE;1 22-MAY-2017 22:50:19.68

Image Identification Information

image name: "MONITOR"
image file identification: "X-27"
image file build identification: "XE6K-0100140000"
link date/time: 22-MAY-2017 22:50:19.45
linker identification: "A13-04"




OpenVMS Monitor Utility
SYSTEM STATISTICS
on node STUDNT
6-MAR-2021 09:47:25.05

CUR AVE MIN MAX

Interrupt State 0.49 0.39 0.16 0.66
MP Synchronization 0.00 0.00 0.00 0.00
Kernel Mode 0.16 0.06 0.00 0.16
Executive Mode 0.00 0.00 0.00 0.00
Supervisor Mode 0.00 0.00 0.00 0.00
User Mode 0.33 0.19 0.00 0.33
Compatibility Mode 0.00 0.00 0.00 0.00
Idle Time *******.** 99.34 *******.** *******.**
Process Count 10.00 10.00 10.00 10.00
Page Fault Rate 0.00 0.29 0.00 0.83
Page Read I/O Rate 0.00 0.03 0.00 0.16
Free List Size 9555.00 9555.60 9555.00 9558.00
Modified List Size 447.00 447.19 447.00 448.00
Direct I/O Rate 0.00 0.03 0.00 0.16
Buffered I/O Rate 0.49 0.53 0.33 0.83

OpenVMS Monitor Utility
DISK I/O STATISTICS
on node STUDNT
6-MAR-2021 09:49:53.72

I/O Operation Rate CUR AVE MIN MAX

STUDNT$DKA0: STUDSYS *****.** 100.65 *******.** *******.**

As reported in comp.os.vms, this problem does NOT occur, if running the same virtual disk in CHARON-AXP or on a real ES47.

I can make the associated FreeAXP Log file (OpenVMS Studentpackacke.log) available, if required.

Volker.
http://www.invenate.de
Author RE: VSI FreeAXP Student kit and MONITOR display problem
Bruce Claremont
Moderator

Posts: 606
Joined: 07.01.10
Posted on March 06 2021 04:54
I've reproduced the problem using FreeAXP 653 and OpenVMS 8.4-2L2.

The problem does not occur under VMS 8.3 or 8.4.

We'll have a look at the issue. Thanks for the bug report.
Edited by Bruce Claremont on March 06 2021 05:02
Author RE: VSI FreeAXP Student kit and MONITOR display problem
VolkerHalle
Member

User Avatar

Posts: 103
Location: Germany
Joined: 02.04.10
Posted on March 06 2021 07:37
Bruce,

did you try MONITOR/RECORD SYSTEM/ALL under V8.4 and then just display that MONITOR.DAT file on V8.4-2L2 using MONITOR/INPUT=MONITOR.DAT SYSTEM/ALL - still the asterisks for Idle Time ? This would rule out any MONITOR data-collection problems.

Note that MONITOR has been changed in V8.4-2L1:

3.1.12 MONITOR Utility: MONITOR IO FREE LIST SIZE field overflow on large memory systems

V8.4-2L2 MONITOR SYSTEM/ALL has been reported to work o.k. on a real ES47, but the above 'fix' was apparently to the same MONITOR class display, so it may be related.

Idle Time of *******.** for CUR, MIN and MAX is completely bogus, AVG 99.34 - in my case - looks good.

Volker.
http://www.invenate.de
Author RE: VSI FreeAXP Student kit and MONITOR display problem
VolkerHalle
Member

User Avatar

Posts: 103
Location: Germany
Joined: 02.04.10
Posted on March 06 2021 20:48
Bruce,

further testing results: running MONITOR ALL/ALL shows the asterisks problem on different displays (IO,PAGE,DISK,TIMER), but it depends on load, i.e. whether the default values of 0.00 get overwritten by the measurement data. The asterisks may show up as '0.**' or '*******.**'
MONITOR TIMER is really showing lots of asterisks, as most of the data measured/shown are nearly always non-zero.

Now a little bit of speculation about the possible underlying problem:

- OpenVMS Alpha V8.4-2L2 has been completely rebuilt/recompiled for EV6 support
- the problem does not show up on a real ES47 and a CHARON-AXP/DS20, both EV6 machines
- FreeAXP is emulating an AlphaServer 400, an EV4 CPU - 'enhanced' for EV6 support
- now if the newly built OpenVMS Alpha V8.4-2L2 and the new MONITOR include some
instructions beyond EV4, there is some risk of seeing a possible 'bug' in instruction emulation

Volker.
http://www.invenate.de
Author RE: VSI FreeAXP Student kit and MONITOR display problem
Bruce Claremont
Moderator

Posts: 606
Joined: 07.01.10
Posted on March 07 2021 03:04
Thanks Volker!
Author RE: VSI FreeAXP Student kit and MONITOR display problem
VolkerHalle
Member

User Avatar

Posts: 103
Location: Germany
Joined: 02.04.10
Posted on March 09 2021 04:20
Some troubleshooting results using MONITOR/RECORD TIMER:

When displaying the data, MONITOR uses the absolute counter values PMS$GQ_TQE* from the system (or from the MONITOR.DAT file), builds the differences from the values collected/recorded in the previous interval, then converts the differences to floating-point values and divides it through the collection interval length, building rate/second floating values.

These floating values are then converted to the whole part and the fractional part and stored as integers. These integer values are then output using $FAOL_S and control strings containing multiple "!7UL.!2UL"

So 'the problem' seems to be somewhere in those conversion code pathes (see MONITOR.LIS routine COMPUTE_STATS).

You would probably need the current MONITOR source listing to have a chance to further debug this. A MONITOR.EXE built with /DEBUG would certainly help here...

Volker.
http://www.invenate.de
Author RE: VSI FreeAXP Student kit and MONITOR display problem
Bruce Claremont
Moderator

Posts: 606
Joined: 07.01.10
Posted on March 10 2021 03:36
Thanks Volker. We'll see if VSI will assistance.
Author RE: VSI FreeAXP Student kit and MONITOR display problem
VolkerHalle
Member

User Avatar

Posts: 103
Location: Germany
Joined: 02.04.10
Posted on March 15 2021 22:33
The problem is absolutley reproducable on the new VSI 2021.1 Student Kit (OpenVMS Alpha V8.4-2L2) containing FreeAXP 4.0.0.646

When running MONITOR.EXE from OpenVMS Alpha V8.2 or E8.4 on this installation, the problem does NOT show up.

So the problem clearly is being triggered from 'some specific instruction stream' inside the MONITOR.EXE image from OpenVMS Alpha V8.4-2L2 on FreeAXP !

After creating a forced process dump from a running MONITOR TIMER operation and dumping the complete code section of the resulting MONITOR.DMP file (using SDA>exa/ins 40000:70ec0+30) , it could be shown, that the V8.4-2L2 MONITOR.EXE image uses some EV6-specific instructions:

$ sea monitor_inst.lis itof ! does V8.4-2L2 monitor use new EV6 instructions ?
MONITOR+3C128: ITOFT R25,F1
MONITOR+3C130: ITOFT R16,F0
...
$ sea monitor_inst.lis ftoi
MONITOR+3CC68: FTOIT F0,R23
MONITOR+3DEB4: FTOIS F10,R19
...

So the correct implementation of the emulation of these instructions should probably be closely examined first

Volker.
http://www.invenate.de
Author RE: VSI FreeAXP Student kit and MONITOR display problem
VolkerHalle
Member

User Avatar

Posts: 103
Location: Germany
Joined: 02.04.10
Posted on March 16 2021 02:37
Looks like the error is in the emulation of the FTOIS instruction

What I've done to diagnose this:

- patch the image header of a copy of MONITOR.EXE to set the EIHD$V_DEBUG flag and add/ modify the transfer addresses to first invoke $IMGSTA and then the real transfer address

- $ define/SYS/EXE monitor Dev:<dir>copy-of-monitor

- I tried DBG> set br/ins=(itoft,ftoit) and it failed:
%DEBUG-E-INTERR, debugger error in DBG$PARSE_INSTRUCTION - NYI for Alpha or session corruption

- so I set breakpoints on ALL occasions of the new EV6 instructions ITOF* and FTOI*

- run patched MONITOR with debug and a little MONITOR.DAT input file created by 3 cycles of MONITOR/RECORD TIMER - this guarantees the SAME input being processed every time !

- only 3 of all the above breakpoints were really being hit

- created a small DEBUG .COM file to examine the registers used on those 3 EV6 instructions BEFORE and AFTER the execution, the important one is this:
SET BR 10000+4A218 DO (EXA/INS @PC; EXA/S_FLOAT F10; EXA/HEX F10; STEP/INS ; EXA R26; STEP/INS; EXA/T_FLOAT F11; EXA/HEX F11)

- compared the BEFORE and AFTER values when executing these instructions on the FreeAXP and a CHARON-AXP/DS20 (sorry, I have no real EV6 machine).

... and finally found the problem:

$ type monitor_debug_ds20.log
!SHARE$MONITOR+4A218: FTOIS F10,R26
g
!break at SHARE$MONITOR+4A218
!SHARE$MONITOR+4A218: FTOIS F10,R26
!0\%F10: 0.0000000E+00
!0\%F10: 0000000800000000 <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
!stepped to SHARE$MONITOR+4A21C: ITOFT R26,F11
!0\%R26: 0000000000000040 <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
!stepped to SHARE$MONITOR+4A220: STL R26,(R18)
!0\%F11: 0.316202013338398E-321
!0\%F11: 0000000000000040

SYS$SYSROOT:[SYSMGR]MONITOR_DEBUG_FREEAXP.LOG;2

!SHARE$MONITOR+4A218: FTOIS F10,R26
g
!break at SHARE$MONITOR+4A218
!SHARE$MONITOR+4A218: FTOIS F10,R26
!0\%F10: 0.0000000E+00
!0\%F10: 0000000800000000 <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
!stepped to SHARE$MONITOR+4A21C: ITOFT R26,F11
!0\%R26: 0000000000000000 <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
!stepped to SHARE$MONITOR+4A220: STL R26,(R18)
!0\%F11: 0.000000000000000
!0\%F11: 0000000000000000

The FTOIS F10, R26 instruction delivers a different output value of R26 for the same input value of F10 when run on FreeAXP. This is worth further analysis...

Volker.
http://www.invenate.de
Author RE: VSI FreeAXP Student kit and MONITOR display problem
Bruce Claremont
Moderator

Posts: 606
Joined: 07.01.10
Posted on March 16 2021 05:10
Thanks Volker. You'll have it solved soonsmiley.

Camiel had been examining the new/modified instructions in VMS 8.4-2L2. As you've shown, the problem lies there.

The bad news is that for people running on real pre-EV6 hardware, VMS 8.4 is likely their last fully supported release.
Author RE: VSI FreeAXP Student kit and MONITOR display problem
Bruce Claremont
Moderator

Posts: 606
Joined: 07.01.10
Posted on March 22 2021 05:09
We've developed a fix, which will be available in the next release. No release date as of yet.
Jump to Forum:
Login
Username

Password



Not a member yet?
Click here to register.

Forgotten your password?
Request a new one here.
Member Poll
Are you going to OpenVMS Boot Camp 2016?

Yes

No

You must login to vote.
Shoutbox
You must login to post a message.

parwezw
January 03 2022
Anyone know what happened to FAFNER.DYNDS.ORG? I had a hobbyist account here but can longer access the site.

gtackett
October 27 2021
Make that DECdfs _2.1A_ for Vax

gtackett
October 27 2021
I'm looking for DECdfs V2.4A kit for VAX. Asking here just in case anyone is still listening.

MarkRLV
September 17 2021
At one time, didn't this web site have a job board? I would love to use my legacy skills one last time in my career.

malmberg
January 18 2021
New Hobbyist PAKs for VAX/VMS are no longer available according to reports. Only commercial licenses are reported to be for sale from HPE

dfilip
January 16 2021
Can someone please point me to hobbyist license pak? I'm looking for VAX/VMS 7.1, DECnet Phase IV, and UCX/TCPIP ... have the 7.1 media, need the license paks ... thanks!

Bart
October 16 2020
OpenVMS, and this website!

malmberg
September 05 2020
VSI community non-commercial licenses for AXP/IA64 are available now.

malmberg
September 05 2020
See the forum about licensing. Don't know if HPE hobby licenses still being issued. Commercial licenses still being sold.

silfox70
September 01 2020
I need the license for OpenVMS7.3. Where can I find them?

malmberg
August 29 2020
Eisner, which is currently being moved, got an SSH update and the keys were updated to more modern encryption standards.

jiml
July 11 2020
ssh to eisner is now giving (on linux) "WARNING: REMOTE HOST IDENTIFICATION HAS CHANGED!" , Has the server key in fact changed ? Of WHO can we ask that somewhere on the eisner webpage they

wyan
May 06 2020
Turns out I had an account here, it still was set to my location a decade ago, so hey, I'm back after over a decade!

Hein
April 21 2020
Hi all, haven't been here in years. Good to see it is all there still. I'm looking around at the forum to stop/start msipcap - 'could not be stopped' - for now. I'll shutdown FreeA

EstesDave
January 09 2020
does anyone have or know of DRB32 manuals

Shoutbox Archive