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OpenVMS Hobbyist Program | Alpha Systems Forums | FreeAXP
Author Host Specs vs Emulated Performance
robl
Member

Posts: 6
Joined: 06.03.09
Posted on February 24 2010 02:32
I know the FreeAXP isn't even in public beta yet, but I am quite excited about the product.

With any emulator, the more powerful the host machine, the better the emulated guest performs. Has there been any formal performance benchmarking from running in various hosts to those of hardware Alphas?

For example, I have a 2.21ghz Intel core2duo, 64-bit, 2GB of RAM. Is there a rough estimate on how it would compare to say a AlphaServer 400 4/233?

I have used PersonalAlpha in the past, but performance was a bit too sluggish.

Thanks! I am looking forward to the public beta.

Rob
Edited by robl on February 24 2010 08:17
Author RE: Host Specs vs Emulated Performance
Bruce Claremont
Moderator

Posts: 485
Joined: 07.01.10
Posted on February 24 2010 17:11
No performance data yet. We'll post it when we have it, but it will not be for a while.
Author RE: Host Specs vs Emulated Performance
Bruce Claremont
Moderator

Posts: 485
Joined: 07.01.10
Posted on March 18 2010 11:00
FreeAXP performance is highly dependent upon the Host O/S (x86 vs x64) and the speed of the underlying hardware. The beta releases of FreeAXP (1.n.n.n) will be slower than the production releases (2.0 and higher, not yet available).

I've posted the VMS VUPs procedure we use to get a quick look at relative performance in this thread: http://www.openvmshobbyist.com/forum/viewthread.php?forum_id=163&thread_id=842

On our test rigs under OpenVMS 7.3-2, the VUPs score ranges from 8.8 on a 5 year old Compaq laptop running Windows XP x86 on a P4 with hyper-threading and 1GB of memory to the low 20's running on a 9-month old development box running Windows 7 x64 and sporting Intel dual quad-cores with 8GB of memory. By way of comparison, a genuine AlphaServer 400/166 equipped with 384MB of memory produces a VUPs score of 27.1.

Feel free to post your VUP scores in this thread. Please list the following information with the scores:

- Host Hardware
- Host O/S
- FreeAXP (or other emulator) version
- VMS version
- VUPs score

We don't currently have a good benchmark to run under Tru64. We'll be happy to use and post one if a Tru64 user cares to contribute one.
Author RE: VUPs Score
johncookson
Member

Posts: 26
Location: Canada
Joined: 04.12.08
Posted on March 18 2010 15:47
Just for informational purposes, I ran the VUPs calculation routine kindly provided by Bruce using my current PersonalAlpha installation. The results are as folllows :-

- Host Hardware Intel Core 2 Duo 3ghz E8400
4gb DDR2 Memory, Seagate SATA 7200 500gb hard drive

- Host O/S Windows XP Pro SP3 (32 bit)
- PersonalAlpha version 2.0.16
- VMS version 8.3
- VUPs score 22.2

I expect the FreeAXP beta version will be slower than this on my hardware setup. As Bruce has indicated, the official release version should be quicker than the FreeAXP beta.

Excellent communications from Bruce. Thanks for keeping us updated so well.

HERE ARE A FEW MORE VUP SCORES FOR PERSONAL ALPHA INCLUDING A NETBOOK
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Performance was much slower than I expected on this one

- Host Hardware Intel Core 2 Duo 2.66ghz E6700
4gb DDR2 Memory, Seagate SATA 7200 500gb hard drive

- Host O/S Windows XP Pro SP3 (32 bit)
- PersonalAlpha version 2.0.16
- VMS version 8.3
- VUPs score 13.8 (Surprisingly poor compared to the E8400 core 2)

This next one might surprise a few people. I was quite impressed.

- Host Hardware Asus Eee Netbook 1005HAB Intel Atom N270 1.6ghz
1gb DDR2 Memory, 160gb hard drive

- Host O/S Windows XP Home SP3 (32 bit)
- PersonalAlpha version 2.0.16
- VMS version 8.3
- VUPs score 7.6 (Surprisingly good as it is only a netbook)
Edited by johncookson on April 01 2010 10:19
Author RE: Host Specs vs Emulated Performance
robl
Member

Posts: 6
Joined: 06.03.09
Posted on March 19 2010 02:35
For comparison, I ran the DCL script posted on my AlphaServer DS10/466.

-Hardware - Compaq AlphaServer DS10/466 with 1GB RAM
-OpenVMS Version 8.3 (Hobbyist Distro)
-Approximate System VUPs Rating : 958.0 (does this sound too high?)

I'll also run it on my PersonalAlpha box and try FreeAXP on that machine as well. Unfortunately, I don't have access to that machine at the moment.
Author RE: Integrity RX2600 VUPs
Bruce Claremont
Moderator

Posts: 485
Joined: 07.01.10
Posted on March 19 2010 04:25
Integrity RX2600
System: PHENIX, HP rx2600 (1.50GHz/6.0Msmiley
VMS 8.3
Dual 1.5

VUPs: 521.0
Author RE: Host Specs vs Emulated Performance
robl
Member

Posts: 6
Joined: 06.03.09
Posted on March 19 2010 06:38
Here's a question, which greatly impacts the VUPS calculations. Looking at 2 lines of the DCL script Bruce posted:

$ cpu_multiplier = 10 ! VAX = 10 - Alpha/AXP = 40
$ cpu_round_add = 1 ! VAX = 1 - Alpha/AXP = 9





You notice there are 2 values for cpu_multiplier and cpu_round_add. If I read it correctly, the script, as posted is for VAX. cpu_multiplier should be 40 and cpu_round_add should be 9 if you run the script on Alpha.

If I run the script on my DS10 exactly as posted, VUPS is 239. However, if I change those 2 values to represent an Alpha, then my VUPs is reported as 958.

Author RE: Host Specs vs Emulated Performance
Bruce Claremont
Moderator

Posts: 485
Joined: 07.01.10
Posted on March 19 2010 16:32
The VUPs score is meaningless except as a way to provide a common comparison between different systems. I probably should not have called it VUPs, as that implies VAX Units of Performance.

As long as everyone runs the same DCL code, we will be able to compare relative performance between different host platforms and FreeAXP releases.
Author RE: Host Specs vs Emulated Performance
astrodanco
Member

Posts: 36
Joined: 04.03.10
Posted on March 30 2010 06:34
Yea, I get 29.4 on an Intel Core I7 920. That pegs just one core though, so I should run several at the same time...
Author RE: FreeAXP
johncookson
Member

Posts: 26
Location: Canada
Joined: 04.12.08
Posted on April 01 2010 10:32
I have posted some more scores for PersonalAlpha running on some more host variations (See edits to my earlier post above). I also performed the VUP test on a brand new Samsung notebook with Core i5 2.26ghz cpu and 4gb DDR3 memory. I can't remember the exact score but it was in the 17 -18 VUP range. This was slower than I expected and noticeably behind my 3ghz E8400 Core 2 Duo desktop system.

I have not tried FreeAXP yet but it is getting more tempting as availability of a new version has been announced. The new version includes an additional virtual serial port, which sounds like it might provide for an extra terminal session on the Host PC. The only other concerns I have relate to the lack of an idle timer on FreeAXP (although this may not be a significant problem on a multicore CPU), and also I am unsure as to how I can change the OpenVMS network interface device names so that I can use my existing PersonalAlpha container files (Don't know how to do this).

Update (05-MAY-2010)

I now have a VUPS rating for FreeAXP Beta 271 running on a brand new MSI Laptop as follows :-

MSI A6200 Laptop
Intel Core i3-330M cpu 2.13ghz
3gb DDR3 memory
320gb SATA Hard disk

Host O/S Win 7 Home Premium (64 bit)
VMS version 8.3
VUPs score 18.4 (Slightly better than the 17-18 score which I reported earlier on a faster Core i5 equipped Samsung Laptop running Personal Alpha)
Edited by johncookson on May 05 2010 14:08
Author RE: Host Specs vs Emulated Performance
astrodanco
Member

Posts: 36
Joined: 04.03.10
Posted on April 01 2010 12:20
Even without the extra serial port, if you've configured and started TCPIP you can just use your favorite terminal emulator to TELNET or SSH from your PC to your emulated machine.

I don't have Personal Alpha here, but from reading the FreeAXP release notes, it sounded like you'd just need to change the DECNET, TCPIP, etc. configurations to reference the correct Ethernet device name. If I was doing that, I'd make a COPY of my Personal Alpha book disk image rather than messing up the original.

Assuming you're using TCPIP rather than MULTINET or TCPWARE, just @SYS$STARTUP:TCPIP$CONFIG, select 1 (core environment), 2 (interfaces) and add a WE0 (EWA0:) interface. Then shutdown and restart TCPIP.

If you're using DECnet IV, just @SYS$MANAGER:NETCONFIG.COM to reconfigure DECnet. (I still like to run Phase IV here. Call me an old troglodyte I guess.)

BTW, the suggestion made in the FreeAXP release notes to add one or more TAP virtual Ethernet adapters, bridge them with a real adapter and then reference them in each of your FreeAXP or other emulator configurations is an EXCELLENT one. That works extremely well. Thanks guys!
Edited by astrodanco on April 01 2010 12:22
Author RE: DS20, DPWS and FreeAXP VUPS
VolkerHalle
Member

User Avatar

Posts: 96
Location: Germany
Joined: 02.04.10
Posted on April 02 2010 03:07
1) AlphaServer DS20 500 MHz OpenVMS V8.3 EV6 (21264) 500 Mhz


Approximate System VUPs Rating : 252.6


2) Digital Personal WorkStation OpenVMS V8.3 EV56 (21164A) 500 Mhz (my
development system at home)


Approximate System VUPs Rating : 153.6


3) Installed the current FreeAXP emulator on an HP 7900 CMT, Intel Core2
Quad CPU Q9400 @2.66 Ghz 4GB Microsoft Windows XP 2002 Professional
Service Pack 2 (a reasonably recent and quite respectable office
desktop) and installed VMS V8.3 from the distribution CD


FreeAXP reported itself as


AlphaServer 400 4/166 running OpenVMS V8.3 EV4 (21064) 1216 Mhz


Approximate System VUPs Rating : 16.0


Volker.

PS: Posting results on behalf of Mark Daniel, see:

http://groups.google.de/group/comp.os.vms/browse_frm/thread/f505de7ca4229dc7?hl=de#
http://www.invenate.de
Author RE: Helpful Tip from astrodanco
johncookson
Member

Posts: 26
Location: Canada
Joined: 04.12.08
Posted on April 02 2010 03:42
astrodanco

Thanks for the tip on how to reconfigure my PersonalAlpha installation Network adapter settings to EWA0 so that a copy of this container can be used by FreeAXP.

Currently I already use a terminal emulator (Anziowin) to telnet into my PersonalAlpha server which is running on another computer. What I meant to convey is that It would be nice if it were possible to use a single PC (such as a laptop) to act as both client and server without having to use the single console window for both client and server purposes. This would be particularly useful for when I am away from home as it would allow me to open multiple client windows on the same machine that is running the server. I assume that with the new release of FreeAXP, it is at least possible to open one more client window using the second virtual serial port. Although not ideal, it is an improvement over what PersonalAlpha has to offer.
Author RE: Host Specs vs Emulated Performance
astrodanco
Member

Posts: 36
Joined: 04.03.10
Posted on April 02 2010 05:54
I guess I don't understand. I have my server and my clients all running on the same PC. I have as many client telnet session windows open as I want. Take a look at the release notes section concerning using TAP virtual Ethernet adapters. They work like a charm and make everything so easy. It just works. Heck, right now I have six telnet windows open, three into a SIMHed VAX and three into a FreeAXPed Alpha, all on the same PC. And both the virtual VAX and the virtual Alpha are clustered together. This virtual machine stuff is great. At the same time on the same PC I also have virtual Linux, virtual FreeBSD and virtual Windows XP machines running using Virtualbox. Cross platform development has never been so easy!
Author RE: Attention Astrodanco
johncookson
Member

Posts: 26
Location: Canada
Joined: 04.12.08
Posted on April 02 2010 13:48
Astrodanco

Your setup sounds both fascinating and exotic.

I have only used the Stromasys PersonalAlpha emulator and have not tried SimH or FreeAXP yet. Looking at the PersonalAlpha forums over at Stromasys, nobody has yet reported being able to use their host Windows PC as both client and server and have been restricted to either using the OpenVMS console window for all activities, or using another PC to telnet into the host machine. In the latter case, it is of course possible to open many concurrent client sessions.

If I am correctly interpreting your post, it appears that these client limitations can be circumvented under FreeAXP or SimH, both of which seem to be working very well for you. I assume you have not used the Stromasys PersonalAlpha emulator as you hadn't mentioned it. I will download and read the FreeAXP documentation as I assume your reference to "TAP" configurations appears in these documents.

Another thing which I find confusing is your mentioning the use of a virtual environment (Virtualbox) which I have no familiarity with. Does the Virtualbox environment permit these client limitations to be overcome ?, or is it the host operating system or VAX/ALPHA emulators themselves that provide methods for setup of multiple client windows through multiple virtualised ethernet adaptors.

I would be very interested to hear more about your specific environment although I do not wish to abuse the thread integrity on this forum.

Perhaps you could explain some of the basics on how your host box is configured for example I would ask the following questions :-

1. Assuming your host is an x86 PC, what host operating system are you running ? (I am guessing this is a Windows flavour).

2. Does Virtualbox run under the host operating system ?

3. Do the guest operating systems you mention then run within the Virtualbox environment ?

4. Assuming the above guesses are correct, do the various VAX/ALPHA emulators then run under the guest operating systems ?

Perhaps you might be kind enough to send me a personal email message (my email address consists of my first and last name as you see it on this forum with no spaces or hyphens, followed by @hotmail.com). In the event you do not wish to do this then I would like to thank you for your comments and I will pursue the interesting clues you have already provided.

JC
Author RE: Host Specs vs Emulated Performance
astrodanco
Member

Posts: 36
Joined: 04.03.10
Posted on April 02 2010 16:00
[1. Assuming your host is an x86 PC, what host operating system are you running ? (I am guessing this is a Windows flavour).

Yes, Windows 7 64-bit

2. Does Virtualbox run under the host operating system ?

I shouldn't have mentioned Virtualbox. It has nothing to do with OpenVMS, VAXen or Alphas and it's not an emulator. It's just a cross-platform virtualization application. I like it. It's useful for hosting other x86 or AMD64 based operating systems under Windows. But it has nothing to do with FreeAXP. I shouldn't have mentioned it.

3. Do the guest operating systems you mention then run within the Virtualbox environment?

Yes.

4. Assuming the above guesses are correct, do the various VAX/ALPHA emulators then run under the guest operating systems?

Yes and no. I'm running FreeAXP directly on Windows 7. I'm also running SIMH directly on Windows 7. However, I could run SIMH on Linux under Virtualbox instead and I have done so (just for kicks).

Please forget everything I said about Virtualbox as it's totally off topic for this forum.

Please do read the FreeAXP release notes though as they're chock full of good info. So far FreeAXP is working very well indeed. I'm impressed.
Author RE: Clearing things up
johncookson
Member

Posts: 26
Location: Canada
Joined: 04.12.08
Posted on April 03 2010 08:53
Astrodanco

Thanks for clearing things up. I was uncertain if Virtualbox was the key element relevant to your Multiclient OpenVMS solution.

I will now take a closer look at FreeAXP (which I have not downloaded yet) as it is clear that the reason for your success with multiclient access comes from information documented in the FreeAXP kit.

I did take a look at the Virtualbox website and documentation last night and it is indeed an interesting product but not relevant to the OpenVMS solution.

Thanks Astrodanco
Author RE: Host Specs vs Emulated Performance
operagost
Member

Posts: 4
Joined: 14.01.08
Posted on April 07 2010 09:01
For comparison:

AlphaServer DS10L (EV6/466): 230.8
Personal Alpha 2.0.17 (Athlon II x4 620): 23.2
FreeAXP (Athlon II x4 620): 13.2

Like FreeAXP, PA only uses one core.
Edited by operagost on April 07 2010 11:07
Author RE: Host Specs vs Emulated Performance
VolkerHalle
Member

User Avatar

Posts: 96
Location: Germany
Joined: 02.04.10
Posted on April 08 2010 00:57
Windows 7 Enterprise, ThinkPad T400
Intel Core(TM)2 Duo CPU P8700 @ 2.53 GHz

FreeAXP V1.0.6.261 up to .283
PersonalAlpha V2.0.17 (IDLE disabled)

OpenVMS V7.3-2

VUPS (FreeAXP tool)
FreeAXP: 18.4 with .261
FreeAXP: 27.8 with .271
FreeAXP: 30.4 with .283
PersonalAlpha: 22.8

VUPS (CHARON Tool)
FreeAXP: 73.0 with .261
FreeAXP: 110.0 with .271
FreeAXP: 120.5 with .283
PersonalAlpha: 91.0

Volker.
Edited by VolkerHalle on June 03 2010 23:59
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malmberg
December 12 2017
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https://sourceforge.net/p
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It would be nice to be able to buy the lastest hardcopy full OpenVMS docset at a very reduced price through the Hobbyist program. smiley

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Decus > Connect > Encompass<Country>

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