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OpenVMS Hobbyist Program | Hobbyists and OpenVMS | Porting Open Source to OpenVMS
Author exchanging information about porting
ton.vanderzwet
Member

Posts: 6
Location: Apeldoorn, The Netherlands
Joined: 12.01.06
Posted on January 12 2006 12:10
Hi all,

Open Source is something new for the VMS manager from the 80's. Although... everybody used it and uses it until this day. Now it is hot. And we (the open standards based VMS-platforms) can benefit from this. The only problem we have is to overcome some difficulties that stem from VMS-only features, such as the rich filesystem.

The know-how is available, we can see it right under our noses. This bulletin board is the living proof of this fact. So are several other sites loaded with opensource software.

Can we collect this knowledge and opensource it?

On our sites (http://www.oooovms.dyndns.org and http://www.4ovms.dyndns.org) we tried to do something like that. Also the vamp-site is well-known now-a-days.

Maybe every site should specialize on a specific topic?

Regards and greetings
Ton van der Zwet
member of the OpenOffice porting to OpenVMS team.
http://www.oooovms.dyndns.org
Author Re: exchanging information about porting
brad
Member

User Avatar

Posts: 134
Location: Hopedale, MA USA
Joined: 15.12.05
Posted on January 12 2006 14:03
[quote:31f5cce467="ton.vanderzwet"][...]
Can we collect this knowledge and opensource it?

On our sites (http://www.oooovms.dyndns.org and http://www.4ovms.dyndns.org) we tried to do something like that. Also the vamp-site is well-known now-a-days.

Maybe every site should specialize on a specific topic?
[...][/quote:31f5cce467]

First of all, thanks for working on OpenOffice; it's a tremendous idea!

Secondly, I'm not a developer, so take my comments with a grain of salt...

I think there should be many sites with many links; it is very hard, for instance, to find information about the VMS port of OpenOffice, because the information is buried many levels deep, with no direct way to get to the information (the same is true for the VMS port of BOINC/SETI). Many (most?) VMS/OpenSource sites should have links to each other, and to other (non-OpenSource) VMS portals and sites, and vice-versa. These "many-to-many" links should enhance the visibility of VMS on the Web, and make it easier for curious folks to find out more about VMS. I don't think the original "architects" of the Web intended for it to be a hierarchical structure.
http://www.turquoisewitch.com/~bradh
Author Re: exchanging information about porting
rjj
Member

User Avatar

Posts: 19
Location: Nottingham UK
Joined: 13.12.05
Posted on January 13 2006 01:59
Once again, I agree with Brad.

Many useful things are out there for us, but they are very scattered.
Anything that makes them easier to find/use/add to must be a very
good thing. Having many links will also make it much easier for
interested "newbies" to get their systems doing something useful.

The easier it is for more people get/keep their interest, the better
it will be for all of us.

Many Thanks for all your hard work.

Russell
http://www.jotei.co.uk
Author
HobbyistOne
Super Administrator

User Avatar

Posts: 126
Location: Plano, TX
Joined: 20.02.08
Posted on January 13 2006 09:24
I think it depends upon the site, for instance a product site or a portal site.

A product site should keep it simple and concentrate on the product. Keeps the links few, but related. A portal site should have a larger set of well organized links to a variety of locations related to the portal.

As an example, I would imagine that OOovms site would have good content for this port, plus links to OpenVMS, openoffice.org, and a few related sites. Sites like Ken Farmers openvms.org would have lots of links for a variety of related OpenVMS topics.

The main reason I put an Open Source forum here, is I think that contributing to Open Source is a great use of the Hobbyist program. The Hobbyist program is an enabler for this, in that porting/writing Open Source is well within the license. And since I think the best way to learn something is to do it, porting source is a great way to learn OpenVMS.
Author optimal publishing and linking
ton.vanderzwet
Member

Posts: 6
Location: Apeldoorn, The Netherlands
Joined: 12.01.06
Posted on January 13 2006 10:12
[quote:c4914c856f="HobbyistOne"]I think it depends upon the site, for instance a product site or a portal site.

A product site should keep it simple and concentrate on the product. Keeps the links few, but related. A portal site should have a larger set of well organized links to a variety of locations related to the portal.

As an example, I would imagine that OOovms site would have good content for this port, plus links to OpenVMS, openoffice.org, and a few related sites. Sites like Ken Farmers openvms.org would have lots of links for a variety of related OpenVMS topics.

The main reason I put an Open Source forum here, is I think that contributing to Open Source is a great use of the Hobbyist program. The Hobbyist program is an enabler for this, in that porting/writing Open Source is well within the license. And since I think the best way to learn something is to do it, porting source is a great way to learn OpenVMS.[/quote:c4914c856f]

I totally agree with you. We intend to dedicate the oooovms site (ooooVMS stands for OpenOffice On OpenVMS;-)) to things related directly to OpenOffice porting on OpenVMS. This means that a few popular items on this site will move to the more general 4ovms site.

What bothers me however is the minimal feedback, reponse and contributions we get. How can we persuade people to share their thoughts, knowledge, questions, doubts, etc? Even via personal mail reactions and questions are rare. (I never use anything from other people send to me, without asking for permision)

Do you have some tips?

Ton van der Zwet.
http://www.oooovms.dyndns.org
Author Re: optimal publishing and linking
brad
Member

User Avatar

Posts: 134
Location: Hopedale, MA USA
Joined: 15.12.05
Posted on January 13 2006 15:30
[quote:088cd8bd1c="ton.vanderzwet"]

I totally agree with you. We intend to dedicate the oooovms site (ooooVMS stands for OpenOffice On OpenVMS;-)) to things related directly to OpenOffice porting on OpenVMS. This means that a few popular items on this site will move to the more general 4ovms site.

What bothers me however is the minimal feedback, reponse and contributions we get. How can we persuade people to share their thoughts, knowledge, questions, doubts, etc? Even via personal mail reactions and questions are rare. (I never use anything from other people send to me, without asking for permision)

Do you have some tips?[/quote:088cd8bd1c]

I would suggest that the lack of response on your sites is not unusual. Not many folks know that VMS still exists; the owner does not actively promote its existence or use, beyond a few select "markets".

For example, take this forum. I found out about the existence of this forum because I belong to a number of mailing lists and "public" VMS sites. One of these resources made a quick mention of the advent of this forum in the middle of December. I dropped by, registered, and began posting. In the month or so that this forum has been available, the number of posts is still small (*not* meant as a criticism).

In terms of raw traffic, comp.os.vms is by far the busiest public venue for VMS-related information. The current (and previous) owners of VMS shun this site, because of a (percieved) hostility towards the owners. IMHO, this attitude (shunning) is bad for VMS' business.

I would suggest lurking (and eventually posting) on c.o.v., using the subject "[ANN]" to bring attention to your efforts, as well as asking for participation. Do this on a regular (monthly?) basis, and I think your efforts will be rewarded with greater visibility, as well as some more participation.

I feel that if the owners of this forum were to do the same, the rate of posting on this forum would increase.
http://www.turquoisewitch.com/~bradh
Author Re: optimal publishing and linking
HobbyistOne
Super Administrator

User Avatar

Posts: 126
Location: Plano, TX
Joined: 20.02.08
Posted on January 14 2006 06:24
[quote:893b58f589="ton.vanderzwet"]
What bothers me however is the minimal feedback, reponse and contributions we get. How can we persuade people to share their thoughts, knowledge, questions, doubts, etc? Even via personal mail reactions and questions are rare. (I never use anything from other people send to me, without asking for permision)

Do you have some tips?

Ton van der Zwet.[/quote:893b58f589]

That's always a challenge, and the big factors you're likely facing are the critical mass of users of OpenOffice, and the number of them that are also OpenVMS users. OpenOffice is getting a lot more attention (especially since MA is endorsing ODF), so you're probably on the leading edge of this.

As OpenOffice (and/or ODF) adoption increases, and I feel it will, I think the interest will increase. I'm an OpenOffice convert, and use it all the time (even when I have to sent documents to Windows users).
Author Re: optimal publishing and linking
HobbyistOne
Super Administrator

User Avatar

Posts: 126
Location: Plano, TX
Joined: 20.02.08
Posted on January 14 2006 06:57
[quote:4eb0374d7b="brad"]
I feel that if the owners of this forum were to do the same, the rate of posting on this forum would increase.[/quote:4eb0374d7b]

Thanks, but I'm not really looking to be a high volume site. Just focused on Hobbyist issues and questions. And I don't want the forum traffic to jump too much too quick either! Slow growth is better!
Author
imiller
Administrator

User Avatar

Posts: 277
Location: UK
Joined: 24.02.06
Posted on March 25 2006 22:19
I think a forum should mostly concentrate on one topic area but have links to other places. The links help people find other VMS sites.
http://www.encompasserve.org/~miller/
Author RE: exchanging information about porting
Alexey Chupahin
Member

Posts: 2
Joined: 17.03.08
Posted on March 17 2008 23:45

Can we collect this knowledge and opensource it?


Hello. Please see once more site:

http://fafner.dyndns.org/~alexey/index.html
Author RE: exchanging information about porting
imiller
Administrator

User Avatar

Posts: 277
Location: UK
Joined: 24.02.06
Posted on March 18 2008 02:28
There could be a VMS opensource links page on www.openvms.org if that would help?

There are HP people who participate in the dark waters of comp.os.vms so it is not completely avoided by the owner of VMS.
Many people do avoid COV due to the large number of off topic posts and the abuse nature of some who post there.
http://www.encompasserve.org/~miller/
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