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OpenVMS Hobbyist Program | Hobbyists and OpenVMS | How I Use OpenVMS
Author lk450 on modern Linux system none of the special keys
jiml
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Posts: 10
Location: Fairbanks , Alaska
Joined: 31.10.18
Posted on December 28 2018 10:58
Hello All , I've been trying to get my New (to me) lk450 , Be recognised when using eve/tpu or even just edit .
I have seen many .Xmodmap/.Xdefaults files and such that are supposed to function . None of which have done anything but make the KB almost inoperable on the linux system and under VMS . I am quite sure the difficulty is with the LInux system not passing the proper coding to the VMS system .
I am using telnet to the VMS system , And using the "set term/inq/page=45/wid=132" it thinks it sees a VT4XX but nothing works . Even if the KB is in DEC Mode . Which definately mangles the KB Usability .

Some particulars , More on request .
ONE very big Caveat , The KB is attached to my only free X86_64 system with Dual Cores , But NO ps2 ports , so it is attached thru a USB-PS2 dongle that has both KB & Mouse .

Under Slackware LInux v14.2, "Linux vaxbox 4.4.132-smp #2 SMP Mon May 21 15:50:54 CDT 2018 i686 Intel(R) Core(TM)2 CPU 6300 @ 1.86GHz GenuineIntel GNU/Linux" .
"SIMH Vax 3900 , git commit id is 874f60cbaa3df80e1f1e3ecc6c820d067c761674" .
"OpenVMS 7.2 , TCP, DecWindows" .

Any ideas are welcome . Tia , JimL
Mr. Malmberg wrote an article on decuserve (~2008) about attaching a lk450 to vms thru a KVM Which I have been unable to find . Hint hint ... ;-)
Mentioned here:
https://groups.google.com/forum/#!searchin/comp.os.vms/lk450|sort:date/comp.os.vms/r0yWQqvfNl0/kbyy2khhH3gJ
Author RE: lk450 on modern Linux system none of the special keys
thein
Member

Posts: 22
Location: Iceland
Joined: 18.02.12
Posted on December 29 2018 12:12
I use PuTTY for LINUX. Then all the VMS Edit keys work on the PC Keyboard.
Edited by thein on December 29 2018 12:43
Author RE: lk450 on modern Linux system none of the special keys
thein
Member

Posts: 22
Location: Iceland
Joined: 18.02.12
Posted on December 29 2018 12:39
You can cut and paste in PuTTY for Linux. It's just Right select to copy and shift insert to paste
Author RE: lk450 on modern Linux system none of the special keys
jiml
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Posts: 10
Location: Fairbanks , Alaska
Joined: 31.10.18
Posted on December 30 2018 17:06
Hello Thein , Thank you . But there are many of the keys that are showing as "XXX key is undefined." , But mostly that seems to be because VMS (according to SH TERM) thinks that Putty is providing a vt102 to the system & "EDIT /XXX" is providing the proper base configuration for such a terminal . And my wonderful lk450 is etched with all the Gold(wps) & Other stuff , None of which matches any of the keymaps shown in the Help functions .

Would you be so kind as to post a copy of a "Putty Telnet attached to VMS"'s ?
ie: ~/.putty/sessions/"saved file"

Please sanitize it for internet connected host names &/or ipaddresses .
Hoping that your copy will enlighten me as to what I am missing in mine .

Tia , JimL


Author RE: lk450 on modern Linux system none of the special keys
malmberg
Moderator

Posts: 530
Joined: 15.04.08
Posted on January 02 2019 02:46
The LK keyboards have at least two modes that are controlled by software.

One mode is that that it will operate as a LK keyboard for a DEC/CPQ/HPE system.

The other mode is that it will operate as a standard PC keyboard.

The key codes sent to the OS vary based on the mode.

Somewhere in Linux there should be a table that maps the key codes sent to by the keyboard to the ASCII or 8 bit codes that the keyboard driver presents to the application, and possibly a utility to display/modify that table.

You may want to see if you can find a tool that will allow you to see what the raw key codes form the terminal are.

I have not yet taken the time to research how to get a LK keyboard to fully work in Linux in either LK mode or standard mode.

I would recommend checking the BSD documentation also to see if that provides better documentation of the keyboard operation.
Author RE: lk450 on modern Linux system none of the special keys
goodbyespy
Member

Posts: 19
Location: Saint Petersburs, Russia.
Joined: 17.11.17
Posted on January 03 2019 07:09
Hello!
I am using DECxterm script to connect OpenVMS on a SimH.
This script has been created by Geoff Kingsmill ([email protected]).

#!/bin/sh
# The procedure remaps the Sun Keyboard, IBM AIX PC type Keyboard,
# Linux PC type Keyboard and Tru64 Compaq Unix keyboards to mappings
# suitable for VMS
#
# Created by Geoff Kingsmill ([email protected])
# Revision 1.0 20-Oct-1997
# Revision 1.1 15-Nov-1997 - added Linux support
# Revision 1.2 27-May-1998 - added help text for keys above arrow keys
# Revision 1.3 19-May-1999 - fixed Linux Insert, Home, Prior, Delete and End key
# Revision 1.4 29-Jun-1999 - added Tru64 Unix, Digital Unix, OSF1
# Revision 1.5 10-Oct-1999 - modified OSF1 keyboard mapping to support both
# the LKxxx keyboards and the PC keyboards.
# Modified default xterm options which can be
# overriden by the DECXTERM_OPTIONS variable.
# The default Terminal Emulator can now be
# overridden using the variable DECXTERM_EMULATOR.
# Alt/F1-F10 now replaced with Shift/F1-F10 as
# most of the window managers have these keys
# mapped to special functions.
# Added HP-UX support.
# Revision 1.6 19-Oct-1999 - minor modifications and added lots of help.
# Revision 1.7 12-Jul-2002 - fixed Linux and HP Left and Right arrow keys.
# Revision 1.8 02-May-2003 - added -cc 33-126:48 as default xterm option so that
# double-clicking on text in the window defaults to
# DECTERM/DXterm behaviour where the whole filename
# is selected rather than just a portion of the
# filename.
# Revision 1.9 18-Mar-2004 - Modified the DELETE key to return 0x7b (\o177)
# rather than ESC[3~ as this resolves some problems
# issues with the delete key when doing a double hop
# between machines. For instance, telnet from Tru64
# to Linux, creating an Xterm and then doing a
# DECxterm to OpenVMS.
#
# usage: DECxterm [-option ...]
# which are identical to xterm. "#man xterm" for further details
# eg: DECxterm -e telnet yakka.ali.dec.com
#
# Note 1: All keys in the same position are mapped to the standard
# VMS LKxxx ikeyboard except for the keys between the main keyboard
# keys and the Numeric/Application keys which remain as labelled.
# The keys on an DEC LKxxx Keyboard are marked on other keyboards as:-
# Find marked Home, Insert marked the same, Remove marked Delete,
# Select marked End, Previous marked Page-Up and Next marked Page-Down.
#
# Note 2: Shift/F1 to Shift/F10 are mapped to F11 to F20
#
# Note 3: Other Terminal Emulators such as dtterm or dxterm can be used
# by setting the variable DECXTERM_EMULATOR. The default is xterm.
#
# Note 4: The default xterm qualiers are defined by the variable
# DECXTERM_OPTIONS and are set to:-
# -fn 9X15 Default font
# -sb Enable scroll bars
# -sl 500 # of lines saved that are scrolled off the top of window
# -cr red Set the cursor color to red
# -tn vt100 Set the terminal type to vt100
# -132 Allow switching between 80 and 132 columns
# -cc 33-126:48 Selects the delimiters for selecting a word.
# The default settings can be changed by defining this environment
# variable before running DECxterm.
Author RE: lk450 on modern Linux system none of the special keys
thein
Member

Posts: 22
Location: Iceland
Joined: 18.02.12
Posted on January 04 2019 08:41
There is support for VT100+ and VT400 in putty . Does that help. I don't know much about the LK keyboards. You can change the keyboard setting in terminal/keyboard
Edited by thein on January 04 2019 08:46
Author RE: lk450 on modern Linux system none of the special keys
malmberg
Moderator

Posts: 530
Joined: 15.04.08
Posted on January 07 2019 02:52
The problem is that a key-code map is needed apparently close to the driver level.

I have not learned where that is done in Linux or how to create my own in Microsoft Windows.

Some third party terminal products used to provide a keyboard "driver" for LK keyboards with PS-2 connections, but they only worked for that specific keyboard driver / operating system version.

Each key has two code numbers. One number is sent when the key is pressed, and one number is sent when the key is released. The keyboard driver translates those codes to ASCII or operating specific codes.

For a DYI exercise, see if you can find a test program that reports the key-codes sent from the keyboard as you press and release keys.
Author RE: lk450 on modern Linux system none of the special keys
jiml
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Posts: 10
Location: Fairbanks , Alaska
Joined: 31.10.18
Posted on January 07 2019 13:18
Hello Malmberg ,
I beleive that I have one . But will be a bit to find it . Stored somewhere around here ...
Tia , JimL
Author RE: lk450 on modern Linux system none of the special keys
jiml
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Posts: 10
Location: Fairbanks , Alaska
Joined: 31.10.18
Posted on January 07 2019 14:11
Now that I have Read permissions to /dev/console , the programs , dumpkeys & showkeys & loadkeys , at least don't give me errors . and dumpkeys -f dumps all the definitions of the present keyboard layout . Which I now have for a just restarted linux system in KDE . But there is no headings in the output file so back to reading manpages again . I am going to try dumpkeys again after pressing Alt-f17 which places the keyboard into DEC mode . But I am afraid it'll just spit out the same entries again , as the system DOES NOT actually read the keyboard .

Next I'll try the showkeys command as supposedly that will take input from the keyboard .

Twy(Hopefully soon) , JimL


Author RE: lk450 on modern Linux system none of the special keys
reinhardtjh
Member

Posts: 31
Location: Fort Worth, TX, USA
Joined: 15.12.05
Posted on May 12 2019 12:13
JimL,

It may be that the USB-PS2 dongle is part of your problem. It seems to me that once upon a time I read an online article that talked about DEC LK keyboards and the dongles and that they would somehow keep certain code from being transmitted. It may be that I misunderstood the article and if I could find it again I would give the link but I think it was on Stephen "Hoff" Hoffman's Hoffman Labs site which is no longer online. either there or buried in COMP.OS.VMS somewhere. I was part of several discussions about keyboards, KVMs and such back in the 2003-2007 time period from which I am trying to remember.

I also have an LK450 which I attempted to interface to a KVM switch and use but had troubles. I've also looked into modifying the keyboard input routines in Mac OS X for the same reason but have come up short.

John H . Reinhardt
Edited by reinhardtjh on May 26 2019 10:25
Author RE: lk450 on modern Linux system none of the special keys
jiml
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Posts: 10
Location: Fairbanks , Alaska
Joined: 31.10.18
Posted on May 15 2019 11:09
Hello John , I too remember such an article , But I believe that same person also mentioned that he had issues with his usb dongle in a KVM situation connected to some device (not sure which device type) . He also hinted in that article there were some ps2<->usb dongles that passed all the key presses on to a system . But not sure if the users system was Windows or Linux that he was using to connect to said Device . And as many have mentioned in other articles both here and around the net where to place the key definitions file(s) we have created is of undefined location . As most of the world has migrated to Intel & like hardware , Many items in that effect the user interface have been either hard coded or left at some default that is compatible with Windows . The 'X' Windowing system has grown extensively to AUTO configuration , Not that the 'X' system won't read config file(s) , Just that the Window Manager places its own layer of defaults even over that .

For the record my system Based on Slackware 14.2 As specified above ...
Using a "[ 39.988] (II) XINPUT: Adding extended input device "CHESEN PS2 to USB Converter" (type: KEYBOARD, id 8)" as ps2-usb dongle .
Taken from "/var/log/Xorg.0.log" file .
The Chesen dongle has both Keyboard & Mouse connectors . But I only use the keyboard one .

Thank you all for your insights and places to dig into . Please if anything impinges apon your Memories/Eyes/... Please feel free to include them here .

Tia , JimL
Author RE: lk450 on modern Linux system none of the special keys
urbancamo
Member

Posts: 47
Location: Windermere, UK
Joined: 16.05.07
Posted on May 16 2019 22:10
Hi. I've never been able to get the combination of LK450 and a USB <> PS/2 dongle to work. I've ended up getting hardware with a PS/2 port. I even tried a custom converter called a Teensy which can be programmed by keycodes, but that doesn't handle the extra 'layer' of keycodes supplied by the LK450.

The best compromise I've found is to use an old HP thinclient running Windows XP which then allows me to use Exceed. This supports all the keys on the keyboard. I also use an old version of Reflection terminal emulation software, but this doesn't work correctly even though they supply a specific keyboard driver for the LK450.

Best of luck. If you use linux your alternative is to use the LK201/LK401 Serial keyboard interface supported by a kernel driver and a hardware adapter. This should give you all the VMS specific keys. there is some information about how to do this here: http://www.wickensonline.co.uk/app/index.html#/linuxlk

[email protected]o.uk

Regards, Mark.
Edited by urbancamo on May 16 2019 22:10
http://www.wickensonline.co.uk
Author RE: lk450 on modern Linux system none of the special keys
somersdave
Member

Posts: 67
Location: bristol,UK
Joined: 23.03.07
Posted on May 16 2019 23:06
I'd avoid Telnet if your router is 'connected' - could be coincidence theory but when I upgraded to Ubuntu 18.04 (which has been 'streamlined' and now certain features no longer work) the encryption keys on my Alpha were no longer supported and so I carelessly signed onto the system account via Telnet through my router (the make that Trump 45 doesn't endorse) and now (having swapped PCI bridge and processor boards), I suspect the mother board is faulty (indicated by LEDs - having a dental mirror helps here)
Author RE: lk450 on modern Linux system none of the special keys
malmberg
Moderator

Posts: 530
Joined: 15.04.08
Posted on May 28 2019 14:26
From my memory, many of the USB male to PS2 keyboard dongles just shorted a pin set on the PS-2 keyboard, and depended on the keyboard to switch to USB mode when that combination occurred.
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malmberg
August 04 2022
No more VAX hobbyist licenses. Community licenses for Alpha/IA64/X86_64 VMS Software Inc. Commercial VMS software licenses for VAX available from HPE.

ozboomer
July 20 2022
Just re-visiting.. No more hobbyist licenses? Is that from vmssoftware.com, no 'community' licenses?

valdirfranco
July 01 2022
No more hobbyist license...sad

mister_wavey
February 12 2022
I recall that the disks failed on the public access VMS systems that included Fafner

parwezw
January 03 2022
Anyone know what happened to FAFNER.DYNDS.ORG? I had a hobbyist account here but can longer access the site.

gtackett
October 27 2021
Make that DECdfs _2.1A_ for Vax

gtackett
October 27 2021
I'm looking for DECdfs V2.4A kit for VAX. Asking here just in case anyone is still listening.

MarkRLV
September 17 2021
At one time, didn't this web site have a job board? I would love to use my legacy skills one last time in my career.

malmberg
January 18 2021
New Hobbyist PAKs for VAX/VMS are no longer available according to reports. Only commercial licenses are reported to be for sale from HPE

dfilip
January 16 2021
Can someone please point me to hobbyist license pak? I'm looking for VAX/VMS 7.1, DECnet Phase IV, and UCX/TCPIP ... have the 7.1 media, need the license paks ... thanks!

Bart
October 16 2020
OpenVMS, and this website!

malmberg
September 05 2020
VSI community non-commercial licenses for AXP/IA64 are available now.

malmberg
September 05 2020
See the forum about licensing. Don't know if HPE hobby licenses still being issued. Commercial licenses still being sold.

silfox70
September 01 2020
I need the license for OpenVMS7.3. Where can I find them?

malmberg
August 29 2020
Eisner, which is currently being moved, got an SSH update and the keys were updated to more modern encryption standards.

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