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OpenVMS Hobbyist Program | VAX Systems Forums | VAX Software Forum
Author OPA1 as console
rattila
Member

Posts: 56
Location: Budapest
Joined: 11.08.17
Posted on September 24 2017 08:08
Hi,

How can I use the 2nd serial port as console in SimH?
OPA1 is missing from sh dev output.

TIA,
Author RE: OPA1 as console
Bruce Claremont
Member

Posts: 620
Joined: 07.01.10
Posted on September 26 2017 01:51
Attached is a sample SimH VAX config file. You will find terminal and console lines in it.

; SimH_VAX.cfg
; Sample virtual VAX configuration file for SimH VAX
; Supplied by Migration Specialties (www.MigrationSpecialties.com)
; Use ^E to access the SimH console
;
; device simulates
; CPU KA655”X” CPU with 16MB-512MB of memory
; TLB translation buffer
; ROM read-only memory
; NVR non-volatile memory
; QBA Qbus adapter
; SYSD system devices
; TTI,TTO console terminal
; CLK real-time clock
; DZ DZV11 4-line terminal multiplexer (up to 4)
; VH DHQ11 8-line terminal multiplexer (up to 4)
; CR CR11 card reader
; LPT LPV11 line printer
; RL RLV12/RL01(2) cartridge disk controller with four
; RQ RQDX3 MSCP controller with four drives
; RQB second RQDX3 MSCP controller with four drives
; RQC third RQDX3 MSCP controller with four drives
; RQD fourth RQDX3 MSCP controller with four drives
; RY RXV21 floppy disk controller with two drives
; TS TSV11/TSV05 magnetic tape controller with one driv
; TQ TQK50 TMSCP magnetic tape controller with four dri
; XQ DELQA/DEQNA Ethernet controller
; XQB second DELQA/DEQNA Ethernet controller
;
set log D:\VAX\VAX.log
;
; Load CPU microcode
load -r D:\VAX\ka655xMicroVAX.bin
;
; Attach non-volatile RAM to a file
att nvr D:\VAX\VAX_nvram.bin
;
; Set memory value (max 512m)
set cpu 16m
;
; rqa disk controller enabled by default.
; Enable rpb - rqd disk controllers.
;
;set rqb enable
;set rqc enable
;set rqd enable
;
; Define disk drive types and attach disks. RA92 is largest-supported VAX drive.
; USE RAUSER to make bigger disks
; -L = Logical Blocks
;
set -L rq0 RAUSER=8380080
att rq0 D:\VAX\System55-2.img
;
set -L rq1 RAUSER=8380080
att rq1 D:\VAX\Data.img
;
set -L rq2 RAUSER=8380080
att rq2 D:\VAX\Backups.img
;
; Attach a CD image.
;
set rq3 RAUSER=505
att -r rq3 D:\VAX\Freeware1.iso
;
set rq4 disable
set rq5 disable
set rq6 disable
set rq7 disable
set rq8 disable
set rq9 disable
set rq10 disable
set rq11 disable
set rq12 disable
set rq13 disable
set rq14 disable
set rq15 disable
;
; Set up DHQ11 Terminal Multiplexer
; Terminal Lines
; -------- -------
; TXA: 0 - 7
; TXB: 8 - 15
; TXC: 16 - 23
; TXD: 24 - 31
;
set vh enable
attach vh 11000
;
; Set up DZV11 Serial Multiplexer
; Terminal Lines
; -------- -------
; TTA: 0 - 3
; TTB: 4 - 7
; TTC: 8 - 11
; TTD: 12 - 15
;
set dz enable
attach dz 10000
;
; Disable unused default devices
;
set cr disable
;set dz disable
set lpt disable
set rl disable
set ry disable
set ts disable
set tq disable
set ts disable
;
; Attach Ethernet to a network interface
; xqa enabled by default.
;
set xq type=delqa
;
show xq eth
;
;set xq mac=08-00-2B-AA-BB-CC
;
attach xq \Device\NPF_{386FC681-B14B-4D9E-A7BE-0F86F46E7D6A}
;
show config
;
; Uncomment the line below to enable cpu idle feature
;
;set cpu idle=VMS
;
; Uncomment the line below to enable auto-boot
;
dep bdr 0
;
; Choose one of the following lines. SET CPU CONHALT returns control to the
; VAX console monitor on a halt event (where behavior will be further
; determined by whether auto-boot is set--see above. SET CPU SIMHALT will
; cause the simulator to get control instead.
;
set cpu conhalt
;set cpu simhalt
;
; reroute console output
set console telnet=9999
;
; Start the emulator
;
boot cpu
;
; Exit the emulator
;exit



Author RE: OPA1 as console
malmberg
Moderator

Posts: 530
Joined: 15.04.08
Posted on September 26 2017 03:12
I would not use a DZ device on a real VAX, because using it will totally wipe out the performance of the VAX and can lead to machine check crashes.

DZ devices show up as TTA0:, etc devices.

The OPA0: console device is a DZ device on most VAXes. So it subject to the above limitations. Use it only for installing software and debugging boot problems, nothing else.

If SimH is faithfully emulating a real DZ card, sending large amount of output to it at over 1200 baud will put it into a CPU bound loop and sustained I/O at those faster rates will lead to crashes. Only tried it on VAXen 3 Vups and less.

An emulation of a DH device should have code to do DMA output, and a reasonable SILO for input buffering.

If you are still running a VAX in production using TT: ports for heavy I/O, and it is not crashing, you have been extremely lucky.

If it has been randomly crashing and rebooting like a configuration used for radio controllers, that is probably why, and changing the hardware to a DHU/DHU/CXY card should stop those crashes if nothing else is wrong.

DH devices are named TXA0:, etc.

For real Q-BUS VAXen, in spite of what it may say in the configuration guide the serial devices must be the farthest from the CPU physically, or you can get crashes. There is a known hardware bug in all q-bus serial devices I have seen in passing the BIRQ* signals.

VAXen generally do not have OPA1:. There are a few exceptions to that, but that is just usually re

https://sourceforge.net/p/vms-ports/wiki/SimH-VAX%20in%20a%20Container/

https://sourceforge.net/p/vms-ports/wiki/Home/
Author RE: OPA1 as console
rattila
Member

Posts: 56
Location: Budapest
Joined: 11.08.17
Posted on September 26 2017 08:25
Hi,

Thank you for the explanation.
I thought VAX is the same than AXP. On our real AXP (Personal WS 433) there are 2 serial ports and a special program is using OPA0: as diag output and it hides the real console output so I want to change the port to OPA1.
In the first time I wanted to change the console from OPA0: to OPA1: without success for console. I don't know why. I followed the 'forget the system password' description and I changed OPA0: to OPA1:.
After that I changed my idea: I tried to change the program output from OPA0: to OPA1:
Before I would do this change I checked the devices on VAX (not on AXP!) and I was shocked there wasn't OPA1: on VAX. It true then. I have to check OPA1: on FreeAXP or on a real AXP.

TIA,
Author RE: OPA1 as console
Bruce Claremont
Member

Posts: 620
Joined: 07.01.10
Posted on September 27 2017 02:10
FreeAXP emulates an AlphaServer 400. Like your Personal WS 533, FreeAXP provides two serial ports, OPA0 and TTA0. You cannot change the device names. See Section 7.6.5 and Chapter 11 in the User Guide for more information on FreeAXP serial ports.

Per malmberg's advice, I would not use OP devices for regular access to a SimH instance. Stick with TX, TA, or Telnet.
Author RE: OPA1 as console
malmberg
Moderator

Posts: 530
Joined: 15.04.08
Posted on September 27 2017 15:24
If the serial port physical name starts with "OP" or "TT" it is a low data rate device, and should not be used for anything that transferring data much faster than typing speed, or you are just burning CPU cycles, and that is if you are lucky that it is even working.

A workstation has usually has a virtual OPA0: device that is directed to graphics terminal. During boot, the console output on some models can be redirected to the first terminal device. In some cases this redirection only occurs if the keyboard is not plugged in.

With OpenVMS, my policy is that applications NEVER use physical device names ever. Not for terminals, not for printers, and not for physical disks.

My recommended procedure is for the SYSTEM startup scripts assign a concealed executive mode logical name to the physical resource and have application use the assigned logical names.

https://sourceforge.net/p/vms-ports/wiki/VMSSystemManagement/

You can designate any terminal to be an operator console, but that is only for the opcom messages, not system crashes or console access.

VMS physical device names generally have the first 2 characters indicate the device driver for it, this is followed by a character indicating which controller, and then the device number on the controller.

On Alpha the motherboard serial controllers are simple UARTs with no DMA/SILO with one serial port.

The first one will be named TTA0: and the second one will be named TTB0:. Again as they are just simple UARTS, using them at high data rates are essentially having your ALPHA CPU being more heavily used for simple I/O.
Author RE: OPA1 as console
rattila
Member

Posts: 56
Location: Budapest
Joined: 11.08.17
Posted on October 23 2017 07:22
Maybe I mix the topic a litlle bit with Alpha hw and VAX software. ;-)

I installed OVMS 8.4 to an AXP PW 433au and I tried to upload my hobbyist licences on serial port using copy-paste. It was unsuccessful. Is it so slow? Speed was the default 9,6kb/s.
The file is more than 100kB normal txt file. I had to give the most important licenses manually.

I don't want to open a new thread in AXP forum so I ask here because I think it is related to OPA0:
AXP PW 433 au has got 2 serial ports. How can I use for terminal login the 2nd one (TTB0)?
Author RE: OPA1 as console
malmberg
Moderator

Posts: 530
Joined: 15.04.08
Posted on October 23 2017 16:41
Eventually I need to find time to add a vms-ports wiki page on VMS serial ports.

For a terminal port to be used for logins, it needs to be set /type/perm, you need to have it wired correctly, and if the port does not support autobaud, you need to have the baudrate match.

To be clear:

Do not expect TT<c><n> or OP<c><n> devices on VAX to work above 1200 Baud for any sustained input. This is a hardware limitation. It takes .25 VUP to drive each of these low end terminal class device. A MicroVAX II can barely support 8 DZ-11 ports even at 1200 baud.

However you can put 24 or more DH class ports on a VAX, and run them at 9600 baud with no problems.

Alpha hardware may be faster, but the TT<c><n> class terminal driver is not designed for large amounts of input. I have never tried to use the TTA0: or TTB0: ports.

The TT<c><n> driver is not buffered, so it has to interrupt the CPU for every character sent or received. So even with the Alpha being faster, you are basically burning CPU cycle with every character transferred.

Your DECServer 95TL would be a better choice for a terminal device than a TTA0: or TTB0: port for interactive logins.

Next choice after a network terminal server is a DHU/CXY terminal driver.

The TT<c><n> class is only used when I have a very slow data rate device, or I have no other options.

There is a SYSGEN paramater for an alternate typeahead buffer size that needs to be set if you are sending more data than the default amount, which is about 80 characters. I would have to look that up in the manuals.

That parameter is not really going to help the TTcn: devices perform better.
Author RE: OPA1 as console
abrsvc
Member

Posts: 108
Joined: 12.03.10
Posted on October 24 2017 02:17
I have to agree with the above statements. While I have had MicroVAX systems with multiple TT ports connected at 9600 baud, these were supporting actual users and not data transfers. Lets be clear here, these ports can and do support higher baud rates. It is the data rate that is limited. People cannot generate enough traffic to hit this limitation. Copy/paste operations can.

Use a terminal server as suggested above and you won't have any issues.

Dan
Author RE: OPA1 as console
rattila
Member

Posts: 56
Location: Budapest
Joined: 11.08.17
Posted on October 26 2017 07:16
OK, I understand.
Then how can "upload" a simple txt file - for example the hobbyist license file?
The VMS was installed and no network without license. Of course I can copy out the most importand 2 or 3 licenses (VMS and UCX) so there will be networking.
Or for example TCPIP doesn't work on my PW machine.

So I was able to freeze my Alpha PW with a copy/paste on OPA0:.
Author RE: OPA1 as console
rattila
Member

Posts: 56
Location: Budapest
Joined: 11.08.17
Posted on October 26 2017 07:27
malmberg wrote:
The TT<c><n> class is only used when I have a very slow data rate device, or I have no other options.

There is a SYSGEN paramater for an alternate typeahead buffer size that needs to be set if you are sending more data than the default amount, which is about 80 characters. I would have to look that up in the manuals.

That parameter is not really going to help the TTcn: devices perform better.


I just want a 2nd console for human typing because the 1st (OPA0) is reserved.
Is that possible? If yes, how?
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malmberg
August 04 2022
No more VAX hobbyist licenses. Community licenses for Alpha/IA64/X86_64 VMS Software Inc. Commercial VMS software licenses for VAX available from HPE.

ozboomer
July 20 2022
Just re-visiting.. No more hobbyist licenses? Is that from vmssoftware.com, no 'community' licenses?

valdirfranco
July 01 2022
No more hobbyist license...sad

mister_wavey
February 12 2022
I recall that the disks failed on the public access VMS systems that included Fafner

parwezw
January 03 2022
Anyone know what happened to FAFNER.DYNDS.ORG? I had a hobbyist account here but can longer access the site.

gtackett
October 27 2021
Make that DECdfs _2.1A_ for Vax

gtackett
October 27 2021
I'm looking for DECdfs V2.4A kit for VAX. Asking here just in case anyone is still listening.

MarkRLV
September 17 2021
At one time, didn't this web site have a job board? I would love to use my legacy skills one last time in my career.

malmberg
January 18 2021
New Hobbyist PAKs for VAX/VMS are no longer available according to reports. Only commercial licenses are reported to be for sale from HPE

dfilip
January 16 2021
Can someone please point me to hobbyist license pak? I'm looking for VAX/VMS 7.1, DECnet Phase IV, and UCX/TCPIP ... have the 7.1 media, need the license paks ... thanks!

Bart
October 16 2020
OpenVMS, and this website!

malmberg
September 05 2020
VSI community non-commercial licenses for AXP/IA64 are available now.

malmberg
September 05 2020
See the forum about licensing. Don't know if HPE hobby licenses still being issued. Commercial licenses still being sold.

silfox70
September 01 2020
I need the license for OpenVMS7.3. Where can I find them?

malmberg
August 29 2020
Eisner, which is currently being moved, got an SSH update and the keys were updated to more modern encryption standards.

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